Adam J. Salgat and Sarah Weisbarth sit down with President of SPACE, INC., Kathie Fuce-Hobohm to discuss how to handle change with grace.
Kathie explains how she is working with Our Community Listens to navigate some significant organizational change. She highlights how the skills have taught her to style flex and improved her feedback methods as a leader.
In Kathie’s key takeaways, listen closely as she reiterates why this isn’t a one-and-done course for her and the staff.
AI-generated dictation of the podcast audio
Please note that this transcription was completed using AI software. Occasionally, unanticipated grammatical, syntax, homophones, and other interpretive errors are inadvertently transcribed by the software. Please excuse any errors that have escaped final proofreading.
Adam Salgat:
Hello and welcome to the, Our Community Listens podcast. My name is Adam Salgat, and with me today is Sarah Weisbarth, leader of alumni engagement, and Kathie Fuce-Hobohm, president of Space Incorporated.
In a prior podcast, we talked a little bit about change. In that podcast, we spoke mainly on personal change and the steps that someone goes through to accept that change. Today, we’re going to speak a little bit more about organizational change. And so with Sarah, I’m going to give it over to you to get started with Kathie, and we’ll head down this path, learning more about organizational change, including what’s been happening here at Space Incorporated.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Thanks Adam. Kathie, I just want to thank you for your time today. Could you help our listeners get an idea of what’s your role, what’s your position? And what you’ve been seeing with the, Our Community Listens skills within your organization?
Kathie Fuce-Hobohm:
Sure, sure. Thank you. First of all, thank you for having me on here. I am a big fan of Our Community Listens, and I’m glad you’re giving me an opportunity to share that with your listeners.
We started pursuing the idea of improving communication, probably, one or two years ago. Our company, Space Incorporated, is an office furniture dealership and interior design firm. And we have people located in Midland, Michigan, but we also have people located on the East Coast. So we’re spread out and we’ve seen, over the course of the last 20 years, as we’ve grown and we’ve diversified, communication was always an issue that we struggled with. In 2017, we applied for an award called the best and brightest companies to work for in the nation. And we were granted it, but part of the process of that experience was to have a survey done on what were the best things about your business, and what were the things that we really needed to improve.
And one of the areas that we found, which just confirmed what we already knew, was the fact that our communication within the company wasn’t exactly where we wanted it to be. We want to be a great place to work. That’s important. We looked around and I think I happened to go to an event. I want to say it was at the Stevens Family Business Center and they showcased OCL. And I believe you spoke at it. And there were some recommendations by business leaders that I was very, very impressed with. So I personally signed up for OCL training before I engaged the rest of the team. And I went to a three-day event in Grand Rapids. And when I got there, the first thing I noticed was how closely the core values of your organization, and the core values that we aspire to, were aligned. When you find something like that, and it works with your culture, that is a number one huge positive.
When I heard the phrase, everyone is someone’s precious child, that resonated with me. I wanted to make sure that we had something that would allow us to treat everyone like they were someone’s precious child. So in March of last year, as a corporation, I made the decision to bring our entire team to OCL training. To not only improve the communication and become a better place to live, but also to really support our core values, and to bring, to use your term, grace, to our company. Or more grace to our company, because we did have some. And it’s been a wonderful experience for us. So highly recommended it, and that’s kind of the beginning of our journey.
Sarah Weisbarth:
I’ve had the privilege Kathie, to track with your team, and track with your organization, from that first three-day class, and then following up with the continuous learning sessions. And I can see the alignment of the values. And it’s been a privilege for me personally, but I also think organizationally, to come alongside a corporation that says, we want to continue to grow, we want to continue to improve, and recognizing that first we have to do that with our people. We can look at the numbers and we can work on the bottom line. We can improve our service lines. But it sounds like you really embraced, what we feel as well, is that everybody matters and that if we’re working and connecting with our people, that’s how the corporation is going to grow.
Kathie Fuce-Hobohm:
I think that’s the only way a corporation grows. A corporation is a group of people aligned to a specific vision, moving in a single direction. And if you don’t have the ability to communicate at a really, really high level, it’s impossible for a business really to succeed.
Sarah Weisbarth:
What are some of the skills, just the core skills, that Our Community Listens brings to it’s participants that you’re seeing happen within your organization?
Kathie Fuce-Hobohm:
We’ve been seeing a couple of major changes in the way we communicate within the group, and, to use a phrase that you use all the time, you’ve been really helping us navigate with grace. I think the concept of grace not only allows everyone to look at each other with fresh eyes, but it allows us to communicate more clearly, and more openly. And that’s been a huge thing, especially now as we’re going through a period of time where we are doing a lot of change. And there is a lot of fear. So being able to incorporate the element of grace has helped our team navigate that better.
Sarah Weisbarth:
I was just really touched by that. It sounds like it’s almost coming to that point of learning how to accept one another. Learning to accept that other people are going to have a different viewpoint. Other people are going to have a different way of approaching an issue. And if you can live with that, assuming positive intent, that grace. I know one of your colleagues always reminds us in our continuous learning sessions, like guys, we have to assume positive intent, that it gives you that space to listen, and start to understand and accept one another.
Kathie Fuce-Hobohm:
Right. Well, it gives you the opportunity to listen, but also, OCL gives you the tools.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Tell me more about that. What kind of tools do you see helping you through this current change management that you’re going through as an organization?
Kathie Fuce-Hobohm:
Yes. Well, part of the three-day seminar involves the DISC profiling. And provides each member of the organization with a detailed document about their personalities, and allows you to share that information. Not that you didn’t know it, because doggone it, those things are really quite accurate.
Adam Salgat:
Yes.
Kathie Fuce-Hobohm:
Thank you very much. I speak as a high D, which is sometimes I don’t like to look at those little answers, but that’s okay. It gives the opportunity for the person conveying the message to understand, this is who I am. This is how I speak. And this is how I understand you need me to speak. And when you understand those two sides of the equation, it’s very powerful. And we’ve found a lot of change in the way we’ve communicated and really dealt with some conflict here.
Sarah Weisbarth:
So just understanding each other’s DISC tendencies, and really style flexing to that. That’s really what you’re talking about there is understanding that if I approach maybe you a little differently, knowing your D tendencies, that it’s going to help us understand one another better.
Kathie Fuce-Hobohm:
Absolutely. And that’s, when we say that we’ve added grace, I think that is one of the areas that is very, very visible.
Sarah Weisbarth:
So this is even individual change, right? It sounds like individually, your team is saying, okay, what do I need? How do I meet the needs of others and communication? But also just changing how you communicate. This doesn’t even touch on yet having significant organizational change happen. It’s really just a change internally of really just building on your current culture.
Kathie Fuce-Hobohm:
It does, but it allows that major change to happen within the organization because it does a couple things. First of all, there’s more clarity. There’s more understanding of, this is actually what I meant. And having the communication, this is what I said, and this is what I heard. Bringing those two things together.
It also helps navigate, anytime when you’re getting into big change there’s a fear element. And not to be able to communicate that, or not wanting to, or feeling embarrassed, or any type of situation where you don’t feel comfortable discussing how that makes you feel, that impacts organizational change. And it doesn’t move as smoothly as it possibly could. And it certainly doesn’t move as quickly as it can. And without the amount of angst, why create extra angst when you don’t need to, if you have these tools that you get from OCL?
Sarah Weisbarth:
Yeah. In our last podcast, when we were talking about change, Adam and I really talked through the process of change. And that angst, that is usually the first reaction that people have when some sort of change has been communicated. Something’s going to happen. And that could be an individual change. That could be an organizational change. That could just be this awareness that change is always constant. People have some sort of emotional reaction to that. And it sounds like you guys have been able to use that grace, as you say, to almost calm that angst and that anxiety.
Kathie Fuce-Hobohm:
Absolutely, that’s been a major positive for the entire process of change. But I will say from a personal standpoint, change isn’t something that necessarily causes me angst. Matter of fact, I tend to embrace change. That’s who I am. That’s what I like. And the more, the better, and the faster, the better.
Unfortunately, it’s not the way the rest of my team needs to listen to our change message. How they need to adapt to the change message, and how quickly they can really assimilate what I’m trying to communicate. So I think personally, and I think you and I had this conversation, personally, it’s been a huge learning experience for me because it’s, slow down, let’s be a little bit more clear. Let’s understand there is fear here, and everyone is someone’s precious child. Let’s deal with this with that framework in mind. So it’s been a personal learning experience for me.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Yeah. Go ahead, Adam.
Adam Salgat:
Kathie, you touched on something there that I talked about in the last podcast. Was the ability to process change, and the differences between people. I, myself, process change pretty quick and my wife on the other hand needs that space to process change. So it sounds like in your organization, you are really focusing on taking into account those who need a little more time to process that change.
Kathie Fuce-Hobohm:
Absolutely. And understanding that that’s okay. That is perfectly okay. The company should flex, style flex as an organization to help everyone accept change, and be as comfortable as they can be with change. Change is constant. So unfortunately we’re going to have to deal with it and we’re always going to have to deal with it. And as a small business owner, and as a small business, our number one goal is to be sustainable for our team, and make sure our team is well taken care of for this year and for the next 50 years. To do that, we’ve got to change. And helping us do that, OCL has been really helpful in us making this.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Adam, I don’t know, I’d say about a month ago, Kathie and I had the opportunity to sit together with their entire team, in this room, and walk through this concept of, well, wow, this major change is happening in their organization. And I think Kathie would agree with me, there was a lot of angst in the room. It was probably one of the more stressful continuous learning sessions that I’ve navigated with a group of people that are from the same organization, just because of all of that emotion that we talked about in our last podcast that comes with change.
And Kathie, to listen to you just recognize personally, like, hey, I like change. Change is great. Like, let’s go. Spoken like a true D, I just have to tell you. Spoken like a true D. But I love your ability to shift and be like, even though that’s how I feel about change, that isn’t how everyone else is feeling about change. And I think we really highlighted at that last session where I said leadership is probably ready to act. They’ve thought through this change, but the team is in that anxiety. Where do you feel like your team is now? It’s been almost two months from that last session.
Kathie Fuce-Hobohm:
It has. And thank you. First of all, thank you for coming in. I don’t know if everybody does this, but as an organization, we engage OCL on a quarterly basis. And I will say that’s one of the best things I would highly recommend if anybody’s listening to this and wants not only do the three day class, but also have continuous learning. Because this isn’t something that you can do with your team overnight. This is a cultural change. This is a different way of thinking. This is something that you have to invest time, energy, and effort into to make it work.
But I think over the last two months, there has been a reduction in angst. I think there’s still a little fear. But we’ve tried to do a couple of different learning sessions and listening sessions to help take us through that. And then also, and I’ll credit OCL for teaching us this, but it’s not really an OCL principle, but we’ve been very careful, knowing that we have so many S personalities, to over document what’s going to happen. And this is what’s going to happen next. And this is what’s going to happen next. We never would’ve done that. So huge, and kudos to you guys.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Wow. So you’re just even creating that stability, that those as tendencies really then feel supported in the process of change.
Kathie Fuce-Hobohm:
Stability is something that is something we think about. Because we do have, and I didn’t realize this until we went through the program, how many people with S tendencies that we actually have in our organization. So as a percentage, there’s a major majority of people with that tendency, and not to understand that, or not to even acknowledge that, probably was three quarters of our communication issues prior to coming into OCL. But now that we have a platform and a common language, that helps to really help us say, okay this is how people need to hear this information. This is what we need to do. And to be purposeful about how we’re moving forward.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Wow. That’s incredible. I love too that you’re doing those listening sessions. It was actually one of the things that we talked about during our last session is people just want to be heard.
Kathie Fuce-Hobohm:
Yeah.
Sarah Weisbarth:
So it sounds like you took that information and said, okay, let’s create an environment where we’re just going to start to listen.
Kathie Fuce-Hobohm:
Right. Right. For us, this is an investment. This is something for our entire staff. This is something that isn’t a one and done. This is something we’re trying to build on. So to do that, we want to be really focused and really purposeful about what we’re trying to do.
Sarah Weisbarth:
So, so far I’ve heard, looking at the DISC tendencies, we’ve heard using the listening skills, just fundamentally. It’s Our Community Listens, I hope that’s one of the key things that people take out of class.
Kathie Fuce-Hobohm:
Sure.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Really just understanding how people maybe are reacting to change, and adjusting accordingly. Is there anything else?
Kathie Fuce-Hobohm:
Oh, there’s so many things.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Oh good.
Kathie Fuce-Hobohm:
Oh, there is. There is. I had to do a little survey with my team just to make sure. I pulled a couple, three people, into my office and say, okay, what was your biggest takeaway? What was the OCL takeaway? And I will tell you, to a person, everyone’s had a takeaway. So yay, kudos.
Adam Salgat:
[inaudible 00:00:18:38].
Kathie Fuce-Hobohm:
It is. It’s wonderful. Couple of things. First of all, one of the gals mentioned, and this works personally and professionally. So with her son, which always makes me happy because anytime business positively impacts home life, it’s like, yay. Good for that. Her phrasing to her son. She mentioned that instead of asking her son, will you help me? She rephrases the question and she just says, please, will you help me? She says it’s found a major difference just by doing a little tiny tweak with rephrasing, and flexing her style just a little bit to meet her sons. So that was exciting.
After our three day offsite, one of the gentlemen who works for me came in and said, “I want to thank you. I want to thank you for allowing us to go over to the training.” He said, “My wife and I haven’t been getting along for the last few months.” He said, “And usually when we get in a fight, we don’t speak to each other for three or four days. There’s a lot of tension. It’s hard on our kids and that’s been kind of our pattern.” He said, “After I went to OCL training, I went home and we had a fight and I thought, you know what, I’m going to have a conversation.” And he said, he stayed up with his wife for four or five hours and their marriage has never been better. So thank you. Wasn’t that lovely? Thank you OCL.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Wow. Those stories always, they just make my heart sing. Because I feel like we understand the skills on a very rational level. And sometimes I think they’re almost easier to apply in a professional setting, because it’s like this training we’ve gone through and you can logically just start to apply the skills. But when you start to truly integrate them into every aspect of your life, for one, that’s when you’re motivated to change because you see the impact.
Kathie Fuce-Hobohm:
Right.
Sarah Weisbarth:
And you’re improving not only your work environment, but that’s impacting home.
Kathie Fuce-Hobohm:
Sure.
Sarah Weisbarth:
And we see that over and over and over again.
Kathie Fuce-Hobohm:
I completely agree. It makes business life better too. It’s at home. It’s with your friends. Communication is how we bond, how we build relationships. And having good skills, it makes a difference.
Sarah Weisbarth:
So it sounds like you can almost see how, if stress is reduced at work because we’re communicating better, that impacts home. But also if we’re doing better in our personal relationships, that also impacts work.
Kathie Fuce-Hobohm:
Oh, always, always. It’s a continuous loop. There’s not an either or when it comes to issues. If you have an issue at work, it does, it simply impacts. So reducing the amount of concern at work allows our team to go home and focus on their family, which is exactly what we want. You know, again, we’re going to be the best and brightest in the nation. Thank you very much. We got a goal here, we’re a business.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. But in reaching that business goal, it takes it back to that everyone is someone’s precious child.
Kathie Fuce-Hobohm:
Absolutely. Absolutely.
(music).
Adam Salgat:
Kathie, tell me a little bit about how the skills have helped you with your feedback style. I know that you work with a lot of designers, whether they may be graphic designers, or interior design, or both. Tell me how the skills have changed how you choose to communicate your feedback to them, knowing that maybe they’re a little more connected to that piece of work than you maybe had realized in the past.
Kathie Fuce-Hobohm:
Absolutely. Yes. Honestly, probably the best thing we got out of OCL was my needs to improve. Do you know what I mean? I don’t take that negatively. It’s like, Oh, darn I should have done that a year ago. Couple of things from a feedback standpoint. And as a matter of fact, I’m doing performance reviews right now with the team, which is a formal setting. And again, causes a little angst because you’re sitting down.
One of the things I did was I went and before I framed my message to each person, I went back and I re-read all of their DISC profiles. So understanding that being communicated with in a certain matter was important, slowing down, using words for clarity, asking for understanding, providing feedback in that, using that criteria has been really helpful.
Now I practiced it from the time we took the class until now, so it’s coming along. But to be able to review and see exactly, okay I’ve got three or four high Cs in my group, I need to provide them during a performance review, or doing any kind of review, or conversation, as much detail as I possibly can. I don’t need that much detail, but understanding that, I was able to prepare for that. So where I would have in the past probably said something to the effect of, you’re doing a great job. I love the fact that you are calling three businesses a week to get new business. And consider that a perfectly fine answer, happy with it, good for me, A plus. Now I would reframe that.
So I would say, from a detail standpoint, I’m really impressed with the fact that you have been able to do a contact, you’ve called 15 people on your contact list, and you’ve done it three days in a row. And from that, then I’ve seen this, and this is excellent. And then I’ve seen this, this is probably a needs to improve. So how can we work on that? And then I’ve seen this. So instead of throwing a single answer out as fast as I can, which for me is more than enough information, I’ve been able to divide the message up, get as detailed and as clear as I possibly can, and then present it in that way. So to answer your question, the way I provide feedback is customized.
(music)
Sarah Weisbarth:
So Kathie, having had the opportunity just to spend some time with your organization, I have a sneak peek in knowing that not only have you worked on just how you change the way you guys communicate, which you’ve just highlighted beautifully, you’re also going through a major change currently. But from a long-term standpoint, you have a sustainability plan as it relates to leadership, and how eventually leadership will transition. Can you speak more about how you see that happening, and how the, Our Community Listens skills is supporting that?
Kathie Fuce-Hobohm:
Yes, I can. I really think that the skillset learned in Our Community Listens are probably the most critical to leadership development. As you know, I have what we call our gen two leaders. So this is the next generation. This is the succession plan. And we have two people who will step up and run the company when I’m not here. In order for them to lead, understanding how to communicate, messaging better, listening better, those are critical, critical skillsets.
Unfortunately, I’m not sure that all small business owners, or all corporate leaders, truly understand how impactful an event, or a training like OCL, can be to their organizations. This is something that will help our business be sustainable in the long run. It will help us get the talent that we need. It helps us keep the talent that we want. It makes coming to work a better event. Every single day makes it better. So why not do that? Why not be that kind of company and win, win, win?
Sarah Weisbarth:
It’s like, it’s not like it’s a one and done. It’s not like Kathie believes in this, so we’re going to do it. It’s instilling this in that gen two leadership, so that someday when you step away, you have a confidence that the leadership will continue this culture. The culture you already brought to OCL, but the culture we’re also helping you build with these listening skills.
Kathie Fuce-Hobohm:
Yes. Yes, absolutely. That is a shared core value between your organization and ours. A shared vision of where we want to take the company with your help. And a platform that allows us to do that. It’s amazing.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Yeah. That’s great. It’s very encouraging and I’m sure feels very supportive for your entire team, knowing that someday when you step away from leadership that the new leadership embraces this as well.
Kathie Fuce-Hobohm:
I think so. Because I think the company is really moving in this direction. And for us, this is an investment. It’s an investment in every single person in our organization, and it’s an investment in the future. So, absolutely great for our gen two leaders and great for the entire company.
Adam Salgat:
Kathie, the Our Community Listens skills have made a big impact in your business as you’ve illustrated to us. What about your personal life? Any stories or any comments you can make on how this has changed? The way that you communicate with your husband or your family or friends?
Kathie Fuce-Hobohm:
Absolutely. Well, my son is one, a member of our gen two leadership team. So he gets to have me practice inside and outside the office. So good for him. My husband’s happier. My husband needs a lot of detail. And my husband likes to have a conversation. Likes to have lengthy conversations. As, again, as a high D, I like short, quick conversations. And since I’ve taken the class, I’ve been much more cognizant around that need. The idea to sit down, to relax, to really listen, and allow him the opportunity to share at the speed and the amount that he needs to share at. So, yes, it’s been a good thing,
Adam Salgat:
Kathie, in our conversation today, we’ve picked up on a lot of things, but I’m going to ask you to maybe narrow it down to three. We normally like to have a few one, two or three key takeaways for our listeners. So what do you got in mind?
Kathie Fuce-Hobohm:
Okay. So I guess my biggest key takeaway was that, from an investment standpoint, I think the return on this investment is incredible. It might not be in actual dollars and cents, but based on the results that I’ve seen, it certainly, at the end of the day, has impacted our bottom line. So that would be my number one. Two, I would highly recommend that people look at OCL, not as a single event, but as a way of life. And the investment probably doesn’t stop after you send your team to the three day teaching. I’ve been especially pleased with our quarterly meetings. And allowing us the opportunity to grow and keep developing the skillset again. And I think I mentioned this before, this is an investment for us, not a one and done. And in order to get absolutely everything out of that investment, it’s continuous and it’s lifelong learning.
Finally, I would say that it has helped me and it will help other business leaders personally and professionally. So there are things, as a leader, that you need to understand about yourself and there’s certainly a lot of areas of needs to improve. This is what I do well, but these are areas that I need to improve. And if you are having a lot of issues around communication within your organization, it certainly helps to take a look at it. First as a leader, and figure out how maybe you can make changes in your behavior and attitude and et cetera, et cetera, to make work life better for your team. Because I know that for most of us in the small business arena, that’s really what we want to do.
We want to have a great place to work. We want to inspire great people. And in order to do that, we have to take a look inside ourselves, and this is something that helps us do that.
Sarah Weisbarth:
Kathie, thank you for sharing so much of yourself with us today, and sharing it with our listeners. Many of your comments today, and just your general presence, and going back to that grace, really came through in our conversation today, and I’m really hoping that inspires our listeners to take a look at their own personal growth and change, and recognize that change is happening all around us.
Kathie Fuce-Hobohm:
Absolutely. Thanks for having me guys.
(music).
Adam Salgat:
If you have any suggestions about subjects for our podcast, feel free to reach out through our Facebook page. And if you’re interested in taking a class, visit ourcommunitylistens.org. Thank you again for listening to our podcast and don’t forget, each word, each action, each silent moment of listening, sends a message. Therefore, you are the message.
(music).
