010-Replay & Retool: Understanding DISC Part 1

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Adam Salgat 0:09
Hello and welcome to Beyond the class from knowledge to action. The audiocast that helps chat and foundation Alumni continue the journey of applying the skills they’ve built and turning them into practical, intentional actions for everyday life. I’m your host, Adam Salgat, and today you’re listening to a new format. We’re introducing this year, something we’re calling replay and retool. This series is our way of revisiting meaningful lessons from earlier audiocasts. Think of them as detailed, powerful refreshers designed to help you bring the skills you learned into our community listens back to the surface and keep them alive in your daily interactions. And each episode will come with a new set of tools, practical, intentional actions to help you immediately step forward with action to stay grounded, stay growing and build stronger relationships. A quick programming note, we will still be creating new episodes covering concepts from our community serves and our community transforms. And we also plan to engage our partnering organizations to showcase their journeys of culture change. Alright, let’s step into our first replay and retool in this episode, we’re revisiting a conversation with Chief program officer Katie Trotter about two disc tendencies, D and I, and how understanding them can shape the way you communicate, collaborate and build deeper connections. We chose this episode because disc is a foundational part of the our community listens framework, and it continues to be one of the most requested refreshers for alumni before we jump into the archived conversation. Here are a few things to listen for. First, you’ll hear where the DISC assessment came from. Second, we’ll examine the D and the i tendency in its purest form, exploring the results driven and people focused behavior types. Lastly, take note of relatable, real life examples and different ways to style flex. Stay tuned with us through the end, because we’ll be sharing new tools designed specifically for alumni that will help you apply these ideas right away. All right, let’s step back into our original conversation.

Adam Salgat 2:26
Today, we’re going to talk about a couple of the tendencies D and I, but before we get there, I want to take the time to give people some more information about the DISC assessment, to refresh them, give them a little bit of the history of it, and get them set up as to how this all came to be. So Katie, tell me a little bit where does the DISC assessment stem from. You know, give me that history.

Katie Trotter 2:52
And Adam, I loved your comment when you said, Man, yours was just spot on. Because I think for many of us, when we took the DISC assessment, it was just a quick 24 questions, and we would get our reports and think, Oh my goodness. How is this so scarily accurate that there are some of us that left class and we’re fine with not knowing, but there are some of us that really want a little better understanding of why those 24 questions and where they came from. And I will say that the disc is rooted very strongly in a long history of work that many of us may have learned about if we took a psychology class in college. So I’ll just do kind of a quick, high level overview for you a little timeline. Yep, so back in the 1920s all of this kind of started with work that was done by the psychologist Carl young. So out of his study and his work came a lot of words that we are familiar with today, like being an introvert versus an extrovert, thinking versus feeling. And those words and that work got expanded by Catherine Cook Briggs and her daughter Isabel, and they developed the Meyer Briggs Type Indicator. So I don’t know Adam if you’re familiar with that, but that’s another type of assessment.

Adam Salgat 4:03
Yep, it is. And correct me, if I’m wrong, that’s considered more of a personality assessment as opposed to behavioral assessment. Is that right? Absolutely.

Katie Trotter 4:13
So we’ll talk a little bit more as we get into the further into the disc work as to kind of what that difference is between the Myers, Briggs and the disc. So that’s, yeah, you’re setting us up very nicely. Adam, sure. So after that, around 1928 William Marston started continuing to work on all of those theories and ideas that have come out of the work of Carl young. And he actually had developed some assessments that actually had 10,000 questions in them, which I cannot even imagine, right? 24 felt very doable. The idea of sitting down and taking 10,000 questions feels a little bit intense,

Adam Salgat 4:50
way more than I’d be ready to handle, I think.

Katie Trotter 4:54
And from there, the work with William Marston got continued to be built on by John Guyer, and he really. Was the one who developed kind of that personal profile that later became known as the disc. So as you see, all of this work is continuing to develop, and then it is now down to that 24 Question assessment, and there are a variety of different vendors who can take that DISC assessment and use it through the algorithm, give out different reports and different interpretations our particular organization chooses to use extended disc.

Adam Salgat 5:27
Okay, can you tell me why our organization chose to use extended disc?

Katie Trotter 5:31
One of the things that we really liked about the extended disc in particular was that when you took the assessment, it actually gives you two separate profiles. It gives you your natural profile, but then also your perceived need to adjust. So essentially, how you think you need to show up to be successful, and it’s kind of a helpful image for us to be able to see how aligned are we with our natural styles. Or maybe if we’re really tired, it might be because we are needing to operate in that other space.

Adam Salgat 6:06
I think there’s a term that we use in that called flexing, yes, yeah, which we’ll talk a little more about. And I’m sure if you remember from class, lot of opportunity to talk about style flexing. So as we step in to first look at the D tendency. There’s a couple things that you mentioned to me that we want to keep in mind when we’re talking about these tendencies, one of them being that we are looking at them in their purest form. We’re going to kind of talk about them in their purest form. Is that right?

Katie Trotter 6:35
Yeah. And Adam, when you look at the four different behavioral tendencies, we would find that only 5% of the population is actually just primarily one tendency. So to talk about in its purest form makes a lot of sense to help better understand but 95% of us are going to find that we resonate with some portions of more than one tendency,

Adam Salgat 6:58
right, right? So we’re a blend. Or a blend of at least more than one of those, and 95 I did not know that stat, by the way, and that’s kind of pretty astounding to think about that. You know, you It’s you really, truly can’t put somebody in one box, but like you said, we can start to learn each one of these tendencies, and hopefully, you know, start to understand people a little better. So let’s start talking about D. D tendency. The word typically associated with D is direct. Tell me a little bit more about this tendency. I’ll let you kind of take it from there, and we’ll do some

Katie Trotter 7:36
follow up. Great. And Adam, I do want to just add the D tendency to me is is incredibly fascinating for a lot of different reasons. One, it’s because it’s the one behavioral tendency that I don’t have any of in my profile. And on top of that, I have lived with and worked with and CO facilitated with people who have a lot of D tendency. So for me, I’ve really learned a lot over the years about the different ways that this need to direct and have control and ownership can show up for that tendency as well. So you’re absolutely right, right? A high D tendency, it’s a need to have control, right? A need to be able to direct, to have ownership, and as a result, on a team that can bring a lot of strengths around being able to drive things forward, to manage time, to make sure that there’s progress that’s happening in the D tendency also seeks out personal challenges.

Adam Salgat 8:30
So that personal challenge always brings my mind to sports players like Michael Jordan, Tom Brady, men who are top, you know, greatest of all time in their in their sports and there’s stories out there about Michael Jordan legitimately making up beefs with other players in his head to keep himself being pushed. So he wanted that personal challenge, even though, even though the beef or the trouble going on between the two of them might have been completely fabricated, but he needed that personal push, and that’s how he did it for himself.

Katie Trotter 9:08
Yeah, and this the sports analogy is great Adam, because I think it’s a concrete way to imagine, like the game winning shot, tons of pressure. There is a high probability that a player with a high t, d tendency like wants that to have that kind of weight and significance, right? They want that personal challenge, whereas there are some other behavioral tendencies that we’ll talk about later in other podcasts, where that would have to take a lot of energy and effort to want to be the one that has the whole game resting on their shoulders, right?

Adam Salgat 9:39
And then in a basketball analogy, their tendency might be the person who’s going to set the pick they want to clear the space for the D tendency to hit that shot. That’s great. Yeah, they’re looking at that support element.

Katie Trotter 9:54
That’s great. And for the non sports fans, if you’ve ever been in a team meeting where somebody presents. This project, idea that you’re like, it would take a ton of work, and we’re not really sure how it could happen. This would really put us out there, and it’s a big time crunch. There’s a good chance that the energy level and a high D tendency is going to go up in that moment, right? They’re ready for the challenge. They want something to keep them engaged. And so if you are in an organization where there’s never that opportunity for a D tendency to direct something or to have a big challenge to tackle, there is a chance that they might not be as motivated as what they could be.

Adam Salgat 10:30
The over extensions of a D tendency. Talk a little bit about that.

Katie Trotter 10:35
At times, the D tendency can be seen as being impatient. And I think it can be helpful to think about that through the terms of pace. So in general, D tendencies are very active on the disc scale. They would be more on the active end. So that means they want to move at a fast pace. They don’t really like to get bogged down with details. They want to be moving quickly. So if they’re in an environment where people are taking a really long time to get things done, or there’s a lot of detailed routine work that they have to do, they can be seen as being impatient, because it’s kind of just getting in the way of them being able to move on to the next thing.

Adam Salgat 11:11
When speaking about PACE, sometimes I think even communication, like verbal communication, can come into play. And I heard you’ve mentioned something in there, they can get bogged down by details. I think you have a personal story you could share that kind of helps put an example to that.

Katie Trotter 11:25
Yeah, and if you keep tying it back to their need for directness, one, it’s like being able to direct something, but also to be direct and be spoken to in a direct way. Like all of these things kind of come together with the D tendency. And my husband, Jonathan, has a primary D behavioral tendency, and we were talking one weekend about the plan for the day, and we had a bunch of company with us, and he posed a simple question, just, do you think I should run errands before I take all the kids in for breakfast? And me not being mindful about how I was responding, I start giving my whole thought process, my reasons why I think Aaron’s beforehand might be good, proactively thinking about a reaction, maybe if the kids aren’t ready on time, talking through all of this. And then at the very end, he said, so it sounds like you are saying yes. And I stopped for a minute, and very kindly, he just said, it’s really hard for me to understand what you’re trying to say. If you just start with Yes, then I kind of know where to where to go next, right, right?

Adam Salgat 12:28
He may not mind hearing the detail. He may not mind hearing the understanding or knowing that you’re putting that kind of thought process into it, but he, in the end, sounds like he’s looking for a directive,

Katie Trotter 12:40
yeah, and it’s kind of that bottom line, right? And so if you are communicating with somebody with a high D tendency, and you’re using a lot of words or metaphors, or you’re explaining the thought process, first, they might be distracted trying to preemptively identify, what are they trying to say? What is the bottom line? Where are we headed? So sometimes you’ll even see it maybe in an email format, where people will write bluff on the top, B, l, u, F, bottom line up front. Start with here’s the end thing that I want to say, and then the details can follow below.

Adam Salgat 13:14
That’s a interesting element. I’ve never really used that in email, but I can see how it would make sense. I can also think of people that I work with that I could easily put something like that together for them, and I know they’d probably appreciate it. And I’m the type of person that, at times, I don’t mind knowing the details, but I do have a tendency to just kind of want to know, okay, what? What’s the action? So that’s, you know, what is that bottom line? Absolutely, yeah, which is interesting. I do say that, but I’ve never shown to have a D tendency in in these, in the DISC assessment. So I think there’s elements that show and don’t show, and there’s times that we we like certain things, and it’s, interesting, the the blend of it all. Because honestly, even though I don’t have much D, I’m a pretty equal blend between I S and C. So yeah, it’s there’s certain things that come into play. Yeah, go ahead.

Katie Trotter 14:13
I think that’s a great point too, to remember that the disc can be an incredibly insightful tool to help us better understand ourselves and how to communicate with others, but it’s also one aspect of ourselves, right? So there are going to be just certain communication preferences, the level of trust within the relationship, that might impact your preferred way of being communicated with So again, just that reminder for us that this is helpful, but it’s also like generalities, and it’s still best to approach people as individuals and be open to, kind of hearing their preferences with how they like to communicate.

Adam Salgat 14:47
Yeah, that’s a good way to put it, yeah, because everybody may have something else, an outside influence that is kind of, you know, change the way that they like to receive information or how they. You know, expect to be communicated to. Is there anything else about the D tendency that we want to cover? I know we didn’t really talk directly about strengths and limitations, but so maybe we touch on those, at least, like we said, again, in the purest form of these D tendencies.

Katie Trotter 15:18
Yeah, so again, going with that goal oriented approach and wanting movement and things going forward. The D tendencies tend to be great bottom line organizers and good at managing time. So they’re not going to let a group stay stuck right in this space of you know, we just can’t quite get it perfect, or we can’t quite get the answers. They’re going to want to see things keep moving forward. The one other thing I really admire about the D tendency is that they are constantly seeking improvement, continuous improvement. So when a project is finally accomplished and done, right, some tendencies want to take a minute to be basking in the glory of all that’s been accomplished. And it’s not uncommon that the D tendencies natural reaction is, I know what we’re going to do next, right? They got that vision, and they want to move quickly, and they’re kind of onto the next area. And then the other ability that the D tendency has is that they tend to be quick decision makers, so they don’t necessarily need to feel like they see every piece in the right face of the puzzle before they can have an idea of what the final image is.

Adam Salgat 16:20
That’s interesting. Yeah, so I reflect on myself a bit where I I’m not always a quick decision maker. I’m much more that absorb. So now I’m starting to realize, okay, I’m not, I’m not quite that, that D it makes sense that doesn’t show up because I’m a collect, collect as much information as I can, and then assess, and then make a decision. Now, all of that can happen quickly, but I generally am going to want to look at as many angles as possible the limitations of a D the statements here include overstepped authority, argumentative. I mean, in their highest form. I can understand how that could come into play, right? Yeah.

Katie Trotter 16:58
And if you think about the fact that the D tendency tends to be a quick decision maker and moving fast, then the idea of them being seen as argumentative could somewhat be an interpretation at times, because they might be quicker to give their opinion or to speak up when they don’t agree with something that’s being done.

Adam Salgat 17:15
And then the other ones mentioned, you know, dislikes routine and attempts too much at once. And I think those make a lot of sense when you think about wanting to move forward quickly and move on the one here that makes me wonder, does the term dreamer fall underneath D tendency, or does that fall underneath a different tendency?

Katie Trotter 17:36
You know, I think I could see it apply in a couple of different areas, but I definitely see some elements with the D tendency, because they have that visionary ability, right? They’re wanting to seek a new challenge, to up their game, right, to keep things moving forward. So I I like that the visionary, the dreamer, kind of being able to shape some of that. And again, they tend to be focused on task first, right? So this kind of vision, or dream of how an organization could be better, how a project could move in a certain space, how things could develop and grow awesome and Adam. If I could add something on that dislike routine that we’ve had come up in class quite a bit. Yeah, it’s been kind of a mix where some people with the tendency say, Absolutely, I hate routine, like drudgery, and others who go, I don’t mind routine. It’s the only way I get stuff done, because it moves them forward. And what we typically find out is that if the D tenancy can create their own routine, they often don’t mind doing it right.

Adam Salgat 18:35
It’s been something they have control over it. Yeah, they can adapt it as they see fit, and they’ve probably done so to make it fit their life, I suppose. So let’s move on to the eye tendency listed here, psychological need to be loved. They’re like a puppy. Is that right?

Katie Trotter 18:55
They want to be in relationship like they get a lot of value and energy and motivation from how they interact and engage with people around them.

Adam Salgat 19:04
So they’re looking for that connection. They’re generally optimistic, people oriented relators, like it’s stated here. Can you think of anyone in your life that that fits that kind of bill?

Katie Trotter 19:16
I am very lucky to have quite a few high I tendencies in my life, and one of the things that I deeply appreciate is that level of optimism. They are the kind of people that when they encounter a challenge or a problem, they’re not thrown off, right? They’re kind of, sometimes the first tendency to step in and be like, we can figure this out. We can come up with a creative solution. We can think outside the box. In fact, they don’t even want any box, right? So there’s not even any type of restriction on what could be in the possibilities, as long as people are doing it together and enjoying one another.

Adam Salgat 19:52
That’s pretty cool. What else can you tell me about the I tendency?

Katie Trotter 19:57
Well, the eye tendency actually is going to be seeking out. Social interaction and recognition. And I think the social interaction is kind of intuitive, right? They want to be engaging with people, so sometimes, if they run into a problem at work, they’re kind of quick to, let’s just hop on a team call and I’ll talk about it together. When people can’t meet in person, they’re often the ones who are like, let’s hop on and do a happy hour or coffee virtually so we can all see each other’s faces and talk. But I think sometimes the recognition piece people get a little bit confused with, because it’s not recognition as in, high I tendencies need praise. Okay, high tendencies want to be recognized as in. They want to be seen like, recognized as a unique individual with unique traits that they can contribute. Yeah, well, I’m

Adam Salgat 20:48
stumbling, because you just described a lot of my life. Where like it. So as you guessed I was, I think s is actually my highest tendency, but i and C set right, right with it. So there’s a lot of things that I kind of blend across the two, and those certain things that you just mentioned for me personally connect with. And I’m sure there’s people out there who just heard the same thing kind of go, yep, yep. Me too. Talk a little bit about them inside of a team. I know we talked about that. Back to our sports analogy. Any thoughts on, you know, what kind of team player this person is in a sports analogy before we step into, you know, maybe a business or or work setting.

Katie Trotter 21:32
Man, that’s a great question. Adam, and, you know, it’s funny, because sometimes when they think about somebody who’s kind of the morale booster, person who’s really building up the team. I think sometimes your initial gut reaction is to move to like the the cheerleaders who are getting the energy level up, getting people encouraged, keeping things going, even when things aren’t going really well. But I also think sometimes it might be that you’re going to have to help me with the wording Adam, who are the players are really robust with eyes, have like, big facial gestures and movements, and they’re kind of like the front man and kind of like the showmanship type deal,

Adam Salgat 22:09
the showmanship the wide receivers of a football team have a tendency to be a little bit more. You know that it, it all depends on personality, because you’ve got got, you know, players like Jerry Rice and Calvin Johnson, best wide receivers in the game that weren’t really attention seekers, or Barry Sanders wasn’t an attention seeker at all. But then you’ve got guys who put up big numbers, and they run to the center of the field, like Terrell Owens to kind of show off a bit, and they’ve got different antics to kind of please the crowd, and they love being that attention center. Also have a tendency to think of these people as potentially the glue of a team, the ones that want to, you know, stay optimistic and keep people connected, right?

Katie Trotter 22:53
And I love your point about getting the crowd involved, because that’s really at the core of what people with high eye tendencies do is it’s about the people and the whole experience and wanting people to be engaged and having a good time. Yeah, and I could see that being the player that when you’re down by 10, they’re the ones who are doing the pep talk on the sidelines and getting everybody all amped up in

Adam Salgat 23:17
a team setting, too. I think you already kind of mentioned this. They’re the ones that jump in and say, we’ll figure it out, right? They’re the ones that kind of have that ready to go attitude, the ability to maybe bring people along with them through encouragement. They want to try and find a way to keep everybody happy and keep everybody connected and moving forward. So you may notice, you know, some of those in your work teams, people like that. And let’s talk a little bit about what happens in work teams, or these types of people that we may see in our work life. And we look at them and maybe we have some thoughts about like, oh my gosh, yeah, they’re great at that, but man, they struggle in this space. How does it How does that sometimes show in this type of tendency.

Katie Trotter 24:03
It’s an interesting thought, Adam, because if you think about it from the strength standpoint, right? The high i is probably getting people engaged in the programs and projects that you have going on. When the team hits a problem, they’re coming up with creative solutions. They’re not really thrown off if things aren’t going clearly. But on the flip side, sometimes the limitations with the high i Is that because they are also in the active, fast paced environment, right, and they’re really focused on people and talking, that sometimes they can become inattentive to details. So some of those details that are needed for projects to take place or for timelines to be completed, they are not the highest priority. Oftentimes, for people with high eye tendencies, gotcha. And then the other part is that sometimes with high eye tendencies, when they get overextended or kind of stressed, they can come across as being disorganized, though, I will say we had a participant who had high eye tendencies one time who said, I know that the 200 Sticky notes randomly scattered around my desk and all of my file folders everywhere. Looks disorganized, but I promise I know where everything is.

Adam Salgat 25:09
Yeah, that sounds a little bit like all the camera gear that’s behind me in my office is I basically know where everything is. It’s a bit all over the place, but if I need it and I can find it there. Yep, I could find it. So you mentioned that a little bit the when they’re overextended, it could be a bit of disorganization, whether or not they might still be organized to them, but it could be perceived as some disorganization, other limitations that we have listed here, there might be more concerned with popularity than tangible results, which is something I find interesting, because I think for certain personalities, it’s just the bottom line, right? And we talked about that a little bit with the D, where this that statement tells me that they are okay with maybe a lower attendance in an event if everyone had a good time that, right?

Katie Trotter 26:00
Yes, that’s a great example Adam. And if I can build on that too, one of the other ways it comes across is in in the way that they receive feedback through that lens as well. So if we’re talking about a program that needs to get re evaluated, if you were to look at the D tendency somebody giving feedback about how to change or adapt the program to improve it, the high D tendencies looking at it through the task lens, right? So they’re looking at it through improvement. And how do I continue to challenge myself and to move forward? The high I tendency is going to receive that through their own need to be loved and their fear of being rejected. So I think probably that’s kind of what it’s getting to when they talk about popularity. It’s not, hey, I want everyone to love me all the time, but feedback is going to be seen through that filter of, man, does this person not like me? Because that is a need, right? So it’s just going to take a little bit more intentionality for the high I tendency to kind of filter through what to do with that feedback.

Adam Salgat 26:59
How does a I tendency, a high I tendency, prefer to be communicated with.

Katie Trotter 27:06
So the high I tendency, again, Adam has a commonality with the D tendency of that active pace. So you can just kind of throw an idea out without having to really make sure that you have everything all lined up. So they’re not really all that interested in all of the really specific details. They want to hear the big idea, and they like it to be posed in a positive light, right? They’re optimistic. They’re creative problem solvers. So if we come in with like there’s no way this is ever going to happen, that can kind of automatically set the tone off on a bad foot. The other part is the i tendency really finds it more motivating to engage in conversational projects when they can first have a little bit of time to connect socially. So sometimes that could look as simple as checking in with how their kids soccer game went over the weekends, if you happen to know that there was a concert that they attended to ask about that just something that recognizes them as an individual, to connect on that human level, and then they can turn to the task at hand. But that can really make a big shift for how people with I tendency engage.

Adam Salgat 28:15
How does that potentially translate to email communication, which is a lot of communication that we go through. I, in my head, I’m imagining something along the lines of maybe identifying, hey, I hope your weekend was great and you and your family are doing well. Or if you know something very specific about their weekend, say, Oh, I hope the girls dance recital went really well and you guys had a great time. And then move into the, you know, the probably the subject of the email. Exactly what it’s about. Does something like that potentially help set the tone for an eye tendency to feel, to feel that

Katie Trotter 28:46
that’s a great example. Yes. And so email communication, just the same as it is with verbal communication, making sure that you just take a minute to kind of do that warm welcome or warm connection can go a long way.

Adam Salgat 28:58
Well, Katie, as we wrap up here, let’s do a little quick recap of both of these tendencies, the D and the I.

Katie Trotter 29:04
I think it can be helpful to take a look at the unique needs and fears of each tendency, because it shapes so much of how we interpret things that are happening around us in the way we communicate. So with the high D tendency, the psychological need is to direct and control and the fear of a high D tendency is a loss of control or of being controlled by someone else, whereas with a high I behavioral tendency, the psychological need is to be loved, and the fear is social rejection.

Adam Salgat 29:38
Welcome back. Revisiting these conversations is always a powerful reminder of how much depth there is in these foundational skills. Today, we’re sharing two quick tips and a PDF packed with practical tools to help you immediately step forward with action tip number one, the bottom line, up front prompt, ideal for communicating with strong people. Tendencies, this tool helps you speak in the direct outcome focused way they prefer a strong bluff statement starts by clearly presenting your main point or desired outcome in the very first sentence, so readers know immediately why it matters. Follow up with only the most essential context that supports or explains your key message. For some this might be tough at first, but ask for feedback and make changes along the way. Tip number two, the conversation starter, perfect for engaging eye tendencies. This tool helps you begin conversations in a way that sparks warmth, energy and connection inside our CFCC leads app under the learning tools tile at the bottom, there is a tile titled conversation starters, so if you’re stuck, these categorized questions give you a simple structure for showing genuine interest without losing sight of your purpose. And lastly, we have the beyond the class disc toolkit. This brand new resource is designed to help you deepen your self awareness and bring disc conversations into your team in a meaningful way. Inside you’ll find the platinum rule refresher, a mindset shift that moves us from treat others as we want to be treated, to treat others as they want to be treated. This reflection sheet helps you examine where style flexing could improve a challenging relationship or strengthen an important one. You’ll also find a guided team conversation outline, a five to 10 minute discussion format you can drop into any meeting. It’s structured, simple and ready to use. The entire PDF is downloadable and yours to keep feel free to print it, bring it to your team or use it as a personal reflection tool. The link to this powerful tool is in the description to this audio cast. Thank you for spending time with us and for your continued commitment to growing as leaders and communicators. These episodes are our way of keeping core skills fresh and accessible, because the more we revisit them, the more naturally they show up in moments that matter. Be sure to join us next as we revisit disc tendencies, S and C. We hope you feel refreshed, retooled and ready for real world action. Until next time, we’re inviting you to walk your path with intention, because you are the message, Take care, my friends.