Confrontation can be difficult. But it is doable. Remember to identify three things: Feeling, Behavior and Impact. Sharing feeling helps us to connect with others, identifying a specific behavior gives the other something to actually consider changing, providing the impact gives the ‘why it would matter’. Listen to Leanne VanBeek, OCL Michigan Chapter Chair walk through an example with host and guest, Adam Salgat.
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Adam Salgat:
Hello and welcome to the Our Community Listens podcast. I’m Adam Salgat, and with me today is Leanne VanBeek, chapter leader for OCL Michigan. Today’s topic is confrontation, what’s going wrong? Generally speaking, Leanne, I get along with a lot of people. Not a lot of people rub me the wrong way, but I’ll tell you what, when they do, I want to talk to them about it.
Leanne VanBeek:
Well, hopefully we can help with that, Adam.
Adam Salgat:
I have a personal belief that if something’s bothering you and you can’t find a way to get past it, you need to talk to the person. If you can’t let it go and truly let it go, you need to go talk to that person. But sometimes, even when I know that and I go talk to the person, I’m potentially going at it the wrong way, maybe thinking I need to come out in the right, like I need to prove I’m right. And I know that might not be the most effective way to do things.
Leanne VanBeek:
Well, I love that you’re already hitting on the three moves, which I think we overlook this a lot. So I love that you mentioned, if I can’t accept the situation, really, truly accept it and not have that be just a false acceptance, and I really can’t adjust to my circumstances to just maybe avoid that annoying coworker who’s driving me crazy or whatever it happens to be, then I’m left with asking for change. So yeah, you’re right. I think when we hit those moments, we know we’ve got to dive in and we need an effective confrontation.
Adam Salgat:
Right. And my change is the right change. Right?
Leanne VanBeek:
Is this where I… No comment.
Adam Salgat:
Okay, so my change might not always be the right change. Tell me a little bit more about effective confrontation.
Leanne VanBeek:
Yeah. Let’s do a quick review, especially for people who haven’t maybe been in the class recently. We remember that everything we learn throughout the class stairsteps and stacks. So one of the first things we’re obviously going to encourage you to do is to think about the person that you need to confront and go back to those disc behavioral profiles, right? When you see that person in a stressful situation, what tendencies are coming out? So Adam, talk to me about, how do we want to do this tonight? Should we just break this down generically? Or do you have a situation that maybe we could play with live?
Adam Salgat:
I would say in general, everybody’s probably been in this type of situation, whether you’re dealing with a potential boss, or a coworker, or someone even in a different department, just picking up on certain things that you noticed that they do make me feel like, or make someone feel like, they don’t appreciate the work that I do.
Leanne VanBeek:
Okay. That’s a good one. So without telling me any obviously details or names, if you were to start with this disc profile and try to think about what you think this person is maybe like under stress, do you think you’d be able to pick up on a tendency?
Adam Salgat:
I don’t believe that I really have a specific person in mind when it comes to this. And a lot of times I have trouble identifying their disc assessment anyway.
Leanne VanBeek:
I think that is actually fantastic that you just said that because I would bet that you are not the only person who has that experience. And especially, if it’s someone we interact with casually in the workplace, then we may not know. We may not have enough data to tell us what their tendencies are. So let’s just assume that we don’t know, we don’t know what their disc style is going to be under stress. What we do know is that when someone’s under stress, they’re either wired to tackle the task part of the problem or the people part of the problem.
And one solution for us, if we don’t know what it is, is we’re going to put both of those into our confrontation message. So when we get to our impact, we’ll come back to that. So the next thing I think we do, if we’ve made the disc assessment is we’re jumping back into that FBI framework where we’re going to try to identify very specifically, how am I feeling about this situation? What is the actual behavior I’m experiencing? And then, what is the impact that the situation is having? Okay, so if we can just keep playing with your example, that would be great.
Adam Salgat:
Yeah, absolutely. So FBI, again, feeling, behavior, and impact.
Leanne VanBeek:
You got it.
Adam Salgat:
Okay.
Leanne VanBeek:
So let’s start with the feeling. Remember, we’re trying to come up with just a really specific feeling. So when you think about the situation where it seems like maybe your work is not appreciated, what would be a feeling that you would put to that?
Adam Salgat:
One feeling that jumps out is unmotivated.
Leanne VanBeek:
Oh, okay.
Adam Salgat:
Because it doesn’t make me feel as though what I’m doing is making a difference.
Leanne VanBeek:
So that’s great, and you did this actually, without even me reminding you that one of our goals in naming the specific feeling is to try to not give such a general feeling word that people could misinterpret it. So if you just say, “I’m frustrated,” well, frustrated to you might mean, “I’m stuck. I don’t know how to move forward.” Frustrated to me might mean you’re angry and it’s my fault. So when you went to unmotivated or de-motivated, that is a great really specific feeling word for what it is you’re experiencing. Let’s look now at the next component. Let’s look at the behavior. So what are you experiencing that feels like it’s the problem?
Adam Salgat:
When we’re in meetings, not much eye contact, never an attaboy or a thank you, just those types of feeling like what I’m doing isn’t even noticed. So therefore, that’s the behavior I’m getting back from them.
Leanne VanBeek:
All right. So what you just did there was, again, brilliant and so all the people who are listening right now should just be really impressed with Adam because if you caught that, what he first said at the beginning with his problem was that they don’t appreciate my work, or it feels like they don’t appreciate my work. And it’s always one of the most common things we see with alumni when they come in to talk about their confrontation messages, as we’ve slipped into judgment, instead of behavior. And again, for those who maybe just need a quick refresher, remember, if I can argue with the statement, then I’m not at a behavior yet. So if I can argue with it, if it’s not factual, that’s a good way to double check it. And then we also say in class, another good way to double check it is, if somebody said that to you, how would you feel?
So when you say, “They don’t appreciate my work,” the other person could come back and say, “Yes, I do,” and you’re not really down to behavior. Now, when I asked you what behaviors you were seeing, you knocked it out of the park because you said they’re not really making eye contact, they don’t say thank you, they don’t give you an attaboy. That’s something that they can’t really argue with. If you say, “You don’t say thank you when I complete my work,” “True. Wow. Yeah, I guess I didn’t.” Or they might say, “Gosh, I thought you knew. I didn’t know I needed to say it.” But either way, you’re down to a very specific behavior, so that’s another place where we can find confrontation goes wrong. How does that feel?
Adam Salgat:
It makes sense. And a lot of compliments my way. I wasn’t expecting that.
Leanne VanBeek:
All right. The third element that we’re going to take a look at then, as we’re working through the FBI is the impact. And again, one of the things that I think we got really good at and a certain generation was being able to say, “When you, I feel.” And if I’m going to have a transparent moment on the air, I’m going to be honest and say that sometimes when people came to me and said, “When you write your emails this way, I feel like you’re too brief,” there was a part of me that inwardly thought, “Well, sorry, but that’s the way I write my emails.” And it was hard for me to really connect to that and really care. That sounds terrible, but it was hard for me to make a connection to that.
When we add the impact into confrontation, I think we get a whole different level of power there because the impact is the, “So what?” So when a coworker comes to me and says, “Hey, Leann, when you send really short, to the point emails, I feel…”, we’ll use your word, “… de-motivated. And the impact is, it makes me question whether or not I have value to you.” Whoa. That’s a totally different lens for me. I might say, “Gosh, I don’t agree with the fact that you feel that way, but if I know that’s the impact it’s having on you, that’s not okay.” I can’t have that kind of an impact. So I think the next question, as we break yours down here, as you’ve said you feel de-motivated when you don’t get a concrete thank you for your work. And so what do you think impact would be?
Adam Salgat:
The impact on my work then is to maybe do less work, or not work as hard, not really put in a lot of extra energy, which I know I have inside me, but just doesn’t feel like it wants to come out because I’m not getting much of a response if I do.
Leanne VanBeek:
That’s awesome. So it sounds like that would be your productivity is probably-
Adam Salgat:
Absolutely.
Leanne VanBeek:
… impacted and your motivation.
Adam Salgat:
Yes.
Leanne VanBeek:
All right, so I’m going to jump back here quickly to our disc profiles. So we know that our DNC profiles would probably be motivated if they hear your productivity is suffering, or your motivation is low because those are task oriented things that they are going to think, “Oh, that’s less efficient. I don’t like that.” Can you think of any people-related impact that we could throw in there, if the person happens to be an I or an S?
Adam Salgat:
Well, when my work isn’t being completed, there’s potential that we’re not having the impact on the community that we truly want in the job that I’m in.
Leanne VanBeek:
Okay. That’s brilliant. I feel like we could not have teed this up better. So no, that’s great, really. So if you were to put that whole message together, again, if we try to just keep the audience tracking with us here, the feeling is, “I’m de-motivated when I don’t get behavior, a thank you for my work. And the impact, if I want to put that out there is that my productivity decreases and then we’re not having the impact in the community serving the people that we want to serve.” And again, the reason we’re going to put both those impacts in there is, I don’t know what the person’s disc profile is, but one or the other should speak to them.
All right, Adam. You’ve got a confrontation message. How do you feel about it?
Adam Salgat:
I feel better. I think stepping through this has really allowed me to look at the proper way to confront someone, as opposed to just going to them and saying, “Why do you hate me?” That doesn’t go over real well. So you got to talk to them about what you’re going through and that’s what we did with feeling, behavior, and impact.
Leanne VanBeek:
We did. I think we’ve got a pretty solid confrontation message. I think that the other thing we often find from alumni, and so this is the part two, I think, to what’s going wrong in confrontation, once the message is pretty solid, I think a lot of people realize, “I went into the confrontation, I thought I was really ready, but wow, as soon as I dropped that bomb on them, they reacted strongly, and all of a sudden, they got really upset with me, they got angry back, and then all of a sudden, we’re arguing because I wasn’t prepared for them to maybe experience what they’re about to experience.” So one of the things I think it’s helpful for us to remember that the minute we deliver that confrontation message, we’ve put that person somewhere. I’m going to put you on the spot, Adam. Do you remember where we put them, from class?
Adam Salgat:
In a stressful situation. In an area that they’re not comfortable. And there are times where my initial reaction is to be defensive right back.
Leanne VanBeek:
Absolutely. Yep. It goes back to those bubbles that we had in class with the logic and the emotion. We’ve just made that person aware that we have a need for change. So remember that emotion is just going to fire up to the top, and logic is going to really compress, and they are now suddenly the person who has the problem, even though we came to them with a problem, which almost doesn’t feel fair. Right?
Adam Salgat:
Right.
Leanne VanBeek:
So in that moment, we now have to be ready to flip our lens. We’re going into confront, but we know that the minute we confront, they’re probably going to get emotional and we have to be ready to step back and…
Adam Salgat:
Listen.
Leanne VanBeek:
Yes. Okay. Good. Gold star.
Adam Salgat:
Listen and reflectively respond.
Leanne VanBeek:
Yep. Perfect. We’re really looking to find a way to empathize with them, to think about maybe a time where someone confronted us, and it was uncomfortable, or it was painful to have to acknowledge that we weren’t doing something well, and then we have to be ready to reflectively listen to them.
Adam Salgat:
If our natural tendency is to be defensive when someone starts coming back at us, that can be pretty difficult. As always, the tips and the reminders that you give us here help us work through those stages. Right?
Leanne VanBeek:
Yeah, I think that’s a great point. And I think that one of the things that probably comes into play here too, that might be relevant is remembering that we’ve just put that person in the box. I don’t know if you remember when we talk about in the box, that there’s a change process now. This person is really stuck in this moment of anxiety. You just gave me feedback and it could be true, but that doesn’t mean I have to like it. So I could be stuck in a space of just having to figure out, what do I think about this?
Adam Salgat:
Thanks, Leanne, for going through the FBI with me. It was a realization that during the impact, certain people, depending on their disc assessment, are going to connect more with what’s happening to me and care more about that impact, or they may care more about the impact of others. So in my certain situation, the impact that we’re having on the community, and they may connect differently to how that’s affecting what’s going on between two of us. Leanne, do you have any tips that you’ve picked up along the way to help us with effective confrontation?
Leanne VanBeek:
I will say that for me, I have definitely come up with a metaphor or just a visual image that I find myself walking through. And so if it’s helpful, I’ll throw that out there. One of the things I’ve realized through experience is that when I go to confront someone, it’s like poking a sleeping dragon. You’re waking up a dragon and they are very likely to breathe some fire back at you when you maybe catch them unaware. And so as silly as it sounds, I will actually sometimes picture myself putting on armor. Putting on a knight’s armor with the visor and picking up my shield.
No sword, just picking up the shield, and being ready because I know that when I send this message, it’s going to be uncomfortable, and if I’m ready for the fact that they are going to come back at me with those flames, I just have to stand in it. I just have to understand, I caused that, wait it out, and then be prepared to go into reflectively listening. And I find that if you’re not prepared for it, and again, I speak from experience, when somebody comes back at you, it’s so tempting to argue, to defend yourself, to get angry in return, and then everything falls apart. But if you can just stand in the fire, and let it pass, and move to reflective listening, I think that’s been a huge help for me.
Adam Salgat:
I imagine myself seeing the same thing that you just explained, and it makes a lot of sense. It also looks like a children’s book explaining how to deal with effective confrontation.
Leanne VanBeek:
Maybe writing a book is in my future. Who knows?
Adam Salgat:
Just so everybody’s aware, that’s copywritten. No stealing. Don’t take that idea. Leanne, what would you like someone to take away from today’s conversation?
Leanne VanBeek:
I would say that the FBI reminder, just really checking your behavior versus judgment and thinking about those impact pieces is huge. And I think I can’t quite resist, but just saying my other key takeaway would be prepared that you’re poking the dragon. Get ready to stand in the fire.
Adam Salgat:
We would love to hear your comments and questions. Find us on Facebook as Michigan OCL Alumni. And for all of the alumni out there, don’t forget, you are the message.
