014-Replay & Retool: Understanding Nonverbals – Part 2

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Adam Salgat 0:09
Matt, hello and welcome to Beyond the class from knowledge to action. The audiocast designed to help Chapman foundation Alumni continue applying the skills they’ve built and turn insight into intentional, everyday Action. I’m your host. Adam Salgat, today’s episode is another replay and retool. This series is our way of revisiting meaningful lessons from earlier audio casts, moments that may already be familiar, but are often worth hearing again through another lens. These episodes help bring core skills from our community, listens back to the surface so they stay active and relevant in the way we show up each day. We’re also reminding you about our second beyond the class toolkit, this new alumni resource is specifically focused on nonverbal communication. It’s designed to help you strengthen awareness, alignment and connection in all of your conversations. The entire PDF is downloadable and yours to keep feel free to print it, bring it to your team or use it as a personal reflection exercise. The link to this powerful tool is in the description, okay, let’s step into today’s replay and retool. We’re revisiting the second part of my conversation with Leanne Van Beek on nonverbals, where we move beyond digital communication and into moments where we are already face to face. This conversation centers on an important question, when is it helpful to amplify our nonverbals and when is it actually more effective to restrain them? Before we jump into the archive conversation? Here are a few things to listen for. First, notice how self awareness helps us recognize when our nonverbals are being misinterpreted, even with good intentions. Second, listen for the practical examples of amplifying nonverbals to increase clarity, engagement and care, and finally, pay attention to the moment where restraining nonverbals becomes a gift, creating space safety and stronger connections stick with us through the end, where we will share a few actionable, practical tips and reintroduce beyond the class toolkit nonverbals. Okay, let’s step back into the original conversation. Welcome to today’s skill snippet with me again, like I mentioned in our prior skill snippet, Leanne Van Beek is here. Leanne is here. Is with her facilitator lens on today. Welcome to the skill snippet, Leanne,

Leanne Van Beek 2:47
thanks for having

Adam Salgat 2:47
me. So this is a continuation of our nonverbal skill snippet, where we talked about the effect technology has when it comes to communicating and how we lose our nonverbals in that space. Gave a couple good tips and suggestions on how we could improve that, or what ways that we can keep that in mind. But this next one is a little bit more about talking about our nonverbals leveling up in a space when we’re already face to face. And so we’re going to talk about when’s the right time to amplify nonverbals And when’s the right time to potentially constrain or restrain your nonverbal so tell me a little bit about what you’re talking about when you say, amplify your nonverbals. What does that look like?

Leanne Van Beek 3:29
Sure, absolutely. And I think this is a really, hopefully empowering thing for people to consider that even though we sometimes are aware that our nonverbals happen reactively, this is more about how can I be even more proactive with my nonverbal skill set? Maybe I’ve been working really hard to identify what I do, but I might not have thought before about sort of my general affect. Okay? And for some people, they do tend to have a more either neutral or sometimes, I’ve heard people describe themselves as having a flat effect.

Adam Salgat 3:57
Yeah, I was gonna say that flats the word that I’ve heard often.

Leanne Van Beek 4:00
Yeah, you just tend to have a more neutral face. And you may be a person who you frequently hear other people say, I can’t read you. I can’t tell what you’re thinking. And those can be cues to recognize that in moments that maybe are more emotional, or just maybe it’s important to communicate a certain message. I may choose to amplify my nonverbals. I may choose to intentionally stretch to a point where it maybe feels a little, you know, a little clunky to me. But for example, I might choose to intentionally smile when someone is pitching a new idea of something that we could go and do for the weekend and just let them know, like, yeah, I could. I’m excited about that, maybe I can tell that they’re hopeful or they’re trying to connect with me. That might be one way to do it. And so amplifying is to just think about, how do I strategically lift up my nonverbals to maybe a higher level where other people can perceive them more easily?

Adam Salgat 4:57
I love that example of thinking about what you’re doing when it’s. Someone might be pitching something or bringing something up to you, and I think there’s two elements there. It might be, if you’re the person who’s a little more flat that you know you’re you’re letting them know through your nonverbals that you are excited to spend time with them. But I also am thinking about they might have something on their mind, so their nonverbals are not correlating with the true message that they want to send to this person, right? So it’s a benefit of, you know, having that self reflection in both spaces.

Leanne Van Beek 5:25
Yeah, I think you’re right. And I think sometimes it’s, it doesn’t even necessarily have to be maybe that you’re trying to communicate a certain emotion. But for example, I’ve heard people say that when they listen, they tend to be very still and very straight faced. And so you might find that really simple nonverbals like just shifting your position to lean forward, you know, maybe put your elbows on your knees and be closer to the person, or to be more intentional about nodding from time to time, little things like that. Again, if it may not feel natural at first, but if you recognize that you are getting misinterpreted, then it may be more important to think about what are ways I can be more intentional and sort of, again, amplify how I use my nonverbals in a space where I might not otherwise.

Adam Salgat 6:10
It reminds me also of a story that a good friend of mine, who he was talking about how his nonverbals are often misinterpreted because he’ll stand with his arms crossed across his chest, which, as we know, is kind of a universal sign of maybe upset, or, you know, building wall, right? That he’s also a bigger fellow, you know, six foot 222 50 pounds, and he’s just a solid dude, so, like, you’ve got that physical stature standing there with his arms crossed. Well, he has told people in the past, I’m doing that because my arms are heavy and I rest them up on my chest. This is a comfortable thing for me. It’s not about being upset at what you’re talking to me about. It’s not about being combative

Adam Salgat 6:53
or

Adam Salgat 6:54
me putting up a wall. But he says he’s aware of it, so at times, he knows he’s got to be able to step back from those spaces and amplify something else.

Leanne Van Beek 7:04
Yeah, that’s it, you know, it’s a great example, because I think it also touches on the importance of considering your nonverbals, especially in spaces with someone who doesn’t know you well. So

Adam Salgat 7:13
I’m guessing

Leanne Van Beek 7:14
when he hangs out with you, doesn’t have to probably worry about it.

Adam Salgat 7:17
No, not so much, no, because I we have that relationship that if something was wrong, he’d

Adam Salgat 7:21
tell

Adam Salgat 7:22
me, you know, or I’m not afraid to ask, and if he tells me No, then I have that trust. We have that trust built between the two of us. But yes, work, but when he’s working with new people, or working with, you know, anyone that might not know him as well, yeah, I’m sure he runs into that. So we talked a little bit there about the idea of recognizing something, and in a way, he’s restraining that nonverbal, right? He needs to pull that back. But what other ways are we potentially, you know, thinking about restraining nonverbals, maybe when it comes to, like, high emotions.

Leanne Van Beek 7:55
Yeah, that’s a great point. So, I mean, I would put myself in the category of someone who probably has high nonverbals. I’m constantly told that if somebody were to tape my eyebrows in place, I wouldn’t be able to talk, because I just apparently they move a lot, and I use hand gestures, and I know I’m very expressive. So I have also, thankfully, I have a colleague who I’m really good friends with, and he has shared with me before that, if someone comes in and their nonverbals are high and the emotion is high for whatever reason, based on his experiences, he will actually just shut down in the face of that much to what feels like to him, that much emotion, right? Like it’s just he loses the message, because it’s almost like there’s too many inputs coming at him. So, yeah. So for me, I think about this from a couple lenses, from a work lens, I know that when I go into a meeting with him, I try to be much more still than what I normally am. For me, it’s a way to sort of restrain my nonverbals, to bring the kind of the pace and the feel of the conversation to just a more steady, non distracting place. I hope that’s helpful for him. You know, when we’re in those spaces, it seems to be but I also reflect on the importance of me restraining my non verbals in a really personal situation, which I bet many people can relate to. But the end of a day when maybe you and your spouse or your partner are coming together for the very first time. I know that my husband has a more neutral effect. So when he comes home, I can’t read him. And when he comes home, I am usually very high with my nonverbals, because I’m usually at a point of, you know, I’m probably sighing or I’m rolling my eyes. It’s like I have so many things I want to tell him about, you know, that happened during my day, and when we come in with that imbalance, I think I hit him with way more motion than he’s ready to handle in that first moment coming in the door. So I have also tried to work to restrain my nonverbals in that way I don’t feel like smiling always when he comes home and walks through the door, because I’m just ready to unload. Showed all the things that have happened, but when I can sort of bring again, my energy down, just smile, give him a hug, let him walk past me, and then maybe later on in the evening, you know, be able to get into that we have much healthier interactions. So I think sometimes restraining your nonverbals from those points can be can be helpful for the other person and for you,

Adam Salgat 10:21
two things here. First of all, I want to say thank you for sharing a personal story in that personal space with you and your husband. And second, it’s similar to my wife and I, and I’ve likened, you know, I like the visual of, if I’m a sponge and I’m walking in already full from the day, and I haven’t had a chance to wring myself out and make space for anything, and I’m full, and everything that she’s saying is just washing over me. I now am absorbing none of it, almost none of it, like it’s just pouring off to the sides, like the sponge is too saturated. I’m too saturated. And it’s just we’re not really, truly connecting. So I have thought to myself, you know, maybe I need to take a little bit of time. It’s just five minutes, if it’s still in the driveway, if it’s on my drive home, whatever it might be to like, really think about like, Okay, I need to set myself up for walking into a situation where she’s probably going to want to share her day. She is a natural sharer. She is a wonderful heart on her sleeves woman. So it’s, it’s like, that’s, that’s who she is naturally. So if I know I’m stepping towards that, I need to maybe prep myself as best I can to do that.

Leanne Van Beek 11:35
I love that,

Adam Salgat 11:36
because I want to be careful about asking her. And you made reference to this. You know, you know that about your husband as well. And you’ve maybe asked him about, like, Hey, what’s going on? Like, I’m trying to do this because I’ve certainly talked to Becky about, you know, I need a moment, or I need, you know, like, I can’t listen right now. I want to be careful about not asking them to be someone they’re not.

Adam Salgat 11:58
And

Adam Salgat 11:59
so what we’ve been talking about here is, you know, the foundational element of style flexing, but we need to be true to ourselves still, too. Is that right? I mean, we don’t want to come across fake, and we want to continue to be our genuine self. Yes,

Leanne Van Beek 12:12
absolutely. So I love that you mentioned style flexing, because for those who maybe it’s been a while since you’ve been in class, the kind of main points we try to really, really emphasize with style flexing. Are you do it at key times temporarily, and it’s because your motive is the benefit of the relationship, the benefit of the other person, the benefit for you, right? Like the idea that I’m doing this with a good reason, and I want to step into that space, not that I’m feeling forced to or I feel like I’m being fake. We all know that trying something new can feel awkward and uncomfortable, so to a certain extent, it’s not going to feel natural, but I do think there’s a distinction there. So if I am going to try to restrain my nonverbals, you’re right, I’m probably doing that for the minute and a half that my husband and I first interact, I’m not going to continue to try to hold my emotions in for the rest of the week,

Adam Salgat 13:06
right,

Leanne Van Beek 13:07
right, right? So

Adam Salgat 13:09
it’s the opportunity to give, give a person space for the benefit of the relationship,

Leanne Van Beek 13:13
yeah, yeah. In some ways, I think of it as just giving a gift, right, to temporarily try to adjust so that they feel, you know, like they get what they need in that moment. That, to me, is is a powerful, a powerful way to connect.

Adam Salgat 13:27
Leanne, as we wrap up this skill snippet, is there anything else you would like to add about nonverbals?

Leanne Van Beek 13:34
I think I’ll just say that self awareness is so key. So to just you know again, really try to pay attention to the things that you know that maybe when you’re doing it, you just recognize that it’s something’s going off the rails. To me, that’s a great point to just stop and ask, is there something else I could try here, amplifying, restraining that may just get me a different outcome?

Adam Salgat 14:01
Welcome back. This conversation highlights something many of us experience, even in strong relationships, nonverbals can unintentionally create distance or misunderstanding. What’s powerful is realizing that we don’t need to change who we are. We simply need to become more intentional in key moments today, we’re sharing two practical tools to help you intentionally work on your nonverbals before, during and within important interactions. Tip number one, dial it up or dial it back. This tool helps you intentionally adjust the intensity of your nonverbal cues based on what the moment and the person you’re in front of needs most when someone is sharing excitement, vulnerability or emotion, dialing your nonverbals up, dialing your nonverbals up, can help your message land more clearly, leaning in, nodding, smiling, and allowing your facial expressions and posture to visibly reflect and. Engagement helps others feel seen, valued and heard. When emotions are high or the interaction feels overwhelming, dialing your nonverbals back may be more effective, reducing intensity, slowing your movements and becoming more still can create safety, stability and space for the other person to process. This isn’t about being more or less expressive all the time. It’s about awareness and choice. By dialing your nonverbals up or back with intention, you support clearer communication and stronger connection. Tip number two, wring out the sponge. Make space before you flex. This practice supports style flexing readiness. When you walk into a conversation full from the day, it can be hard to truly receive what the other person is sharing, like water hitting a saturated sponge before stepping into moments that matter. Take a brief pause to reset. This might be a few deep breaths or a quiet walk around the block. These moments can help you mentally shift gears. This isn’t style flexing itself. It’s preparation for it, and aligns our mindset with our nonverbals. Making space first allows for genuine, intentional and deeper relationship building the beyond the class toolkit. Nonverbals, a downloadable PDF to deepen this work. We’re excited to share the beyond the class toolkit. Nonverbals, a new resource created specifically for alumni. This toolkit includes both an individual self reflection and a ready to use team discussion designed to help you bring intentional nonverbal awareness into everyday conversations. Inside the toolkit, you’ll revisit the four core elements of nonverbal communication, speaking, voice and tone, body posture and positioning, facial expressions and eye contact, gestures and movements, you will also find guided reflection prompts that encourage you to notice when your nonverbals align with your words and where they might unintentionally send a different message. And then there’s the team discussion guide, which is structured to fit into a five to 10 minute meeting. The entire PDF is downloadable and yours to keep feel free to use it personally or bring it directly into your team conversations. The link is available in the episode description, and don’t forget the CFCC leads app also includes quick reference tools to support nonverbal awareness and skill building. Thank you for spending time with us and for your continued commitment to grow in the skills you’ve learned, revisiting them helps us move from reacting to choosing how we show up, especially in relationships that matter most. We hope you feel refreshed, retooled and ready for real world action. Until next time we’re inviting you to walk your path with intention, because you are the message, Take care, my friends.